Features & Stability Questions

Hands up Garuda devs who expect it to just work over time.

Hands in your hands Garuda devs who expect it to break things now and then, but are here to help users it affects and have put features in place to minimize the chance of unrecoverable catastrophe (provided the user’s willing to put some effort in and help themselves too).

Just sayin’

The more developers stray from pure Arch, the more they are begging for breakage. Arch breaks, but very rarely because the updates are pushed out after being tested to not break the rest of the system. Look how long it is taking Arch from updating boost? Boost released a new version back in August, yet it is not even in Arch testing? Boost affects a lot of other packages, so it takes time. If you add another repository of custom packages done by a small development team without the resources of Archlinux.org, you are just asking for breakage. I guess that is why Garuda folks rely on snapper so they can retort to users "just restore a snapshot." That is the attitude that our system will break.

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From the main page:
“While being a rolling release distro, our goal is to ensure that your system will not be left in an unbootable state after a problematic update. Thus, we use the BTRFS filesystem integrated with Snapper which employs an automatic snapshot feature, backing up the system configuration before each update. You can access recent snapshots directly from GRUB*”

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I understand that and the warnings and instructions are clear. Users need to be aware of those instructions for restoring a snapshot. Kudos to the documentation team for providing the information.
My complaint is that the system is prone to breakage, and the snapshot feature being so strongly emphasized is an admission that this system is fragile.

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I find it less prone to breakage than trusting newbies to follow some online instruction to compile stuff from source themselves.

It's part and parcel of (non-immutable / non-flatpak) *nix. Windows stands back from all of the third-party software that breaks things over there. On *nix, EVERYTHING is considered "Linux", if there's a dodgy package that breaks things "Linux is crap and unstable".

Ya makes ya choice, ya accept the consequences (well, some do, a LOT point at anyone and everyone else).

E2A: Explaination of this is tricky right. Can't be too wordy and informative as people won't read it. Can't be too pessimistic that breakage is likely as it puts people off. Can't be too optimistic as over promising. Can't put too many warnings about indulging in all of the software offered as it makes it look stupid for including so many launchers. :woman_shrugging:

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Interesting topic and discussion. :popcorn:

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I have been running Linux for over 20 years, and rarely did I ever experience a problem that was not of my own making. Sometimes the system breaks, but in my experience, that is very rare. I have run RedHat, Debian, Ubuntu, Arch, and many others. Of the four I listed, I have never needed a repair after an update, never. I remember how people used to complain about Ubuntu updates breaking the system. I ran several Ubuntu family distros from 2005 to 2017 and never had a problem with updates. I always clean installed each new release fresh while maintaining a separate /home partition, so that is one reason for zero problems.

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Not to piss off the Arch purists, but it is a fallacy that a pure Arch install does not break. From personal experience I can say Arch does not break very often, but it does break occasionally (especially if you don’t read the Arch announcements before updating). In this respect Garuda is actually far more user friendly because we push a notification to users if there is a known potential for breakage with any current update. This new Garuda notification utility makes Garuda far more user friendly than other Arch based distros lacking this functionality.

The notification system along with the inbuilt snapshot restore functionality mitigates much of the risks inherent in a rolling distro. There will always be breakages, but oftentimes the distro (Garuda) is blamed when it is a software or driver issue. Garuda cannot control upstream changes so there will always be some breakages for these reasons.

Many who rant about Garuda’s propensity for breakages really need to look in the mirror as to their hardware choices. Many breakages that occur in Garuda would happen exactly the same if using Arch. That is because if you purchase proprietary hardware such as wifi and graphics cards you will (not may) experience breakages eventually.

Nvidia is constantly in the habit of depreciating their older graphics cards drivers. So, if you use Nvidia expect your video card to stop working with Linux at some point down the road. That is not the distro’s fault, that is a result of choosing hardware with poor Linux compatibility. This undeniable fact will eventually come back to haunt you if you purchase proprietary hardware, (whether you use Arch or a derivative is irrelevant).

It is often not the distro’s fault when a breakage occurs as it is often a result of user ignorance/error or upstream changes that cause breakages. However, sure as the sun rises and sets it will always be the distro that gets blamed for breakages.

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Well yea, if you do it smart. Trouble is, many people aren't smart, let alone how many are adventurous and/or naive.
How many of those "I brought it on myself" wouldn't have happened if you had (chaotic)-AUR? Maybe you'd have the same number of problems, but then it's not "you" that did it, it's the update/repo's fault.

N.B I was afraid you'd fallen asleep on your keyboard there tbg, been seeing you popping up for so long :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

No, I was not asleep. I was merely tired of the idiocy being spouted off on this thread and was trying my best to ignore it. :wink:

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I don’t mean that stability is compromised because of anything directly from garuda. Yes, some things might be, but its mostly for minutes/hours, like the firedragon/chromium/whenever icu dependencies needs rebuild :slight_smile:

But directly from arch. Example the kernel before, also desktops too. Its not impossible for regressions in software to appear in arch or bleeding edge rolling distros ( I include also non arch based rolling distros ).

That is why i mentioned debian/rhel clones, because they take a huge amount of time to be sure of software bugs ( not specificly related to packaging )

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I hope that is wasn’t mine ! I hope my idiocy amuses you, not tire you :slight_smile:

Also … Its a minefield these days about … well… everything!!!
Back in the day things were clearer, and the little info that we had, were from people that sure knew what they were saying/doing.

Today’s age, you have a Trillion opinions on social media ( even more than US’s debt!!! TRILLIONS !! ) :stuck_out_tongue:
Its normal new people get confused!

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I find your posts most amusing, please do continue. :grinning_face_with_smiling_eyes:

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Screenshot_1

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Of course it is. Garuda is, basically, a couple developers’ play toy. I think it can be viewed as a conceptual piece, showcasing some of the better features Linux can offer. They’re just sharing it with us. :wink: They could go with any base they wanted, but I’m really glad they chose, and use, Arch’s.

That being said, I’ve never seen a distribution where its developers were more responsive or transparent. When something can use a ‘fix’ they are right here, right now, doing so.

I’m a big proponent of user-centricity, which is why I stuck with Arch when I found the freedom it gave me. But of all the distribution-centric Arch-based spins out there, Garuda is the one I would choose every time, now that it is here. Plus I’ve known (or followed the work of) most of the people responsible for Garuda’s success for a minute or two. That’s why I was thrilled to see what they had accomplished when one of them invited me to check it out. I know them, and I trust their work. There may be a couple of spins that stick closer to Arch’s base, but, man, Garuda is sure a lot of fun.
:smiley:

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“Garuda: if it’s not fun you’re doing it wrong”

Another candidate for forum tagline. :grin:

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You do not like Garuda,

you accuse Garuda of things, in your rant videos, that are not true.

You have your own arch based respin.

Question, why are you still so attracted to the Garuda forum?

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Chill. :massage_man:

I’d assume it’s to learn more - and the more here, the merrier.

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I had no idea there was a massage emoji. :massage_man:

So calming.... :beach_umbrella:

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  1. About my forum activity, it is a weekend, I was bored and wanted some entertainment. Do I need a better reason?
  1. About the garuda-settings-manager thing, yes, I was alerted to my mistake and put a postscript in the video description explaining my mistake. I do make mistakes from time to time. I was just looking at the actual code, missing the forest for the trees, so to speak. If that is the only complaint you can find against the accuracy of my video, then that ain’t so bad.

I do not like certain choices the developers make and how the dragonized edition wow’s new users. I do not think Garuda is necessarily a good choice for new users, yet seems to attract many that are not prepared for an Arch-based, highly opinionated distro.